"TIME OUT!" Alan Dershowitz And Mustafa Barghouti Debate Aaron Bushnell and Israel-Hamas

Piers Morgan Uncensored
4 Mar 202435:34

Summary

TLDRThe video script revolves around a heated debate regarding the ongoing Israeli-Palestinian conflict, particularly the situation in Gaza. Professor Cornell West faces scrutiny for his tweet labeling a protester who self-immolated outside the Israeli embassy as a martyr, drawing comparisons to historical figures. Contrasting viewpoints clash, with West defending Palestinians' right to resist occupation and Alan Dershowitz accusing Hamas of using human shields. The discussion escalates as they exchange arguments about terrorism, genocide claims, and the potential for a ceasefire, revealing deep ideological divides on this complex issue.

Takeaways

  • 👤 Professor Cornel West defended Aaron Bushnell's self-immolation as an act of 'extraordinary courage' and a protest against the 'genocide' of Palestinians in Gaza.
  • ⚖️ There was a heated debate on whether Israel's actions in Gaza constitute 'genocide', with West accusing Israel of enabling genocide while others disagreed with the use of that term.
  • 🇵🇸 Mustafa Barghouti, a Palestinian leader, claimed that Israel's actions amount to 'genocide, collective punishment, and ethnic cleansing', citing high civilian casualties and destruction in Gaza.
  • 🇮🇱 Alan Dershowitz, an Israeli advocate, argued that Israel is acting in self-defense against Hamas terrorism and denied claims of genocide, accusing Hamas of using human shields.
  • 📟 Kamala Harris, the US Vice President, called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza for at least six weeks, highlighting the 'immense scale of suffering' there.
  • 🔝 The debate centered around the definition of 'genocide', the use of human shields by Hamas, the proportionality of Israel's response, and the release of hostages as a condition for a ceasefire.
  • 💥 Both sides accused each other of propagating lies and misinformation regarding the conflict, leading to a heated and emotional exchange.
  • 🕊️ There were calls for a peaceful resolution to the conflict, with some advocating for Hamas to follow the path of non-violence as embraced by leaders like Martin Luther King Jr.
  • 📚 Historical accounts and interpretations of events, such as the 1948 partition plan and the origins of the conflict, were also debated.
  • 🌐 The debate highlighted the deep divisions and polarized views surrounding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, both internationally and within the United States.

Q & A

  • What was the main controversy surrounding Cornel West's tweet about Aaron Bushnell?

    -Cornel West referred to Aaron Bushnell, who set himself on fire outside the Israeli Embassy in protest, as displaying 'extraordinary courage and commitment.' This drew criticism from many who felt West was glorifying Bushnell's act of self-immolation, which some viewed as the action of someone mentally disturbed.

  • How did Cornel West justify his characterization of Aaron Bushnell's actions?

    -West likened Bushnell's act to moral witnesses like Cato the Younger killing himself to protest the fall of the Roman Republic. West argued that Bushnell was bearing witness to the 'suffering of precious Palestinians in Gaza' and called attention to what he described as a 'genocide' taking place.

  • What was Ben Shapiro's criticism of Cornel West's tweet?

    -Ben Shapiro criticized West for celebrating the 'pseudo heroism of disturbed people lighting themselves on fire,' arguing that such celebration facilitates 'dangerous insanity' in society and puts mentally disturbed individuals at risk.

  • How did Cornel West respond to the criticism of his tweet?

    -West stood by his characterization of Bushnell as a 'martyr,' arguing that trying to bring attention to genocide is a 'higher cause' worth paying the ultimate price for. He also accused his critics of being indifferent to the suffering of Palestinians in Gaza.

  • What was Alan Dershowitz's main argument against Cornel West's claims?

    -Dershowitz argued that West's use of the term 'genocide' to describe Israel's actions is a form of Holocaust denial and a disgrace, given that Israel is simply trying to defend itself. He also accused Hamas of using human shields and maximizing civilian casualties, while Israel tries to minimize them.

  • How did Mustafa Barghouti respond to Dershowitz's claims?

    -Barghouti denied that Hamas uses human shields, calling it 'Israeli propaganda.' He argued that the high civilian casualties in Gaza, including numerous children, constitute genocide, ethnic cleansing, and collective punishment by Israel.

  • What was the position of Vice President Kamala Harris on the conflict?

    -Harris called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza for at least six weeks, citing the 'immense scale of suffering' there. This was part of a negotiated deal being discussed at the time.

  • What was the main point of contention between Dershowitz and Barghouti?

    -A key disagreement was over whether Hamas uses human shields and civilian infrastructure for military purposes. Dershowitz claimed Hamas does this and cited a quote from a Hamas leader, while Barghouti vehemently denied it and called it 'Israeli propaganda.'

  • What was the proposed solution to the conflict being discussed?

    -The proposed solution being discussed involved a six-week ceasefire, coupled with the release of Israeli hostages held by Hamas and potentially moving towards a longer ceasefire agreement.

  • What were the main points of disagreement between the participants in the discussion?

    -The main points of disagreement included: whether Israel's actions constitute genocide, the use of human shields by Hamas, the legitimacy of Hamas as a resistance group, the historical context of the conflict, and the conditions for a lasting ceasefire and peace agreement.

Outlines

00:00

🗣️ Discussion on Aaron Bushnell's Self-Immolation and Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

The paragraph opens with Cornell West defending his statement praising Aaron Bushnell's self-immolation as an act of courage and commitment to bearing witness to the suffering of Palestinians in Gaza. West draws parallels between Bushnell and historical figures like Cato and argues that his critics are indifferent to the genocide and ethnic cleansing in Gaza. He maintains a moral stance, stating he will acknowledge courage in calling attention to the suffering, even through self-harm.

05:00

🔥 Debate on Hamas, Terrorism, and Israeli Occupation

West and the interviewer engage in a heated debate about Hamas, terrorism, and the Israeli occupation. West argues that Hamas emerged as a counterterrorist group in response to Israeli terrorism and occupation, while the interviewer contends that Hamas is a terrorist organization committing acts of mass terrorism. West criticizes the indifference of Western leaders to Palestinian suffering and their enabling of genocide, while the interviewer accuses West of promoting violence and being biased against Israel. The discussion becomes intense, with both sides defending their positions.

10:02

⚖️ Discussion on Genocide, Civilian Casualties, and Moral Consistency

The discussion turns towards the definition of genocide and whether Israel's actions in Gaza constitute genocide. West maintains a moral consistency, stating that he would condemn the killing of innocent people by any organized army, including Israeli troops, Hamas, or others. He argues that the intent and execution of genocide must be considered, and that Hamas emerged as a response to decades of Israeli occupation and terrorism. The interviewer accuses West of promoting violence and dismissing Hamas' terrorist actions, leading to a heated exchange.

15:03

👶 Debate on Children Casualties and Use of Human Shields

The discussion centers on the casualties of children in Gaza and the accusation that Hamas uses human shields. Mustafa Barouti, a Palestinian leader, accuses Israel of killing thousands of Palestinian children and committing genocide, collective punishment, and ethnic cleansing. Alan Dershowitz, an Israeli advocate, argues that Hamas recruits and uses children as human shields, citing a quote from a Hamas leader. Barouti denies the claim, accusing Dershowitz of repeating Israeli propaganda. The debate becomes intense, with both sides presenting their perspectives on the treatment of civilians and children.

20:03

🚫 Debate on Hamas' Use of Human Shields and Civilian Casualties

The debate continues over the accusation that Hamas uses civilians as human shields by building tunnels around schools and hospitals. Barouti denies the claim, stating that Hamas builds tunnels to protect civilians from Israeli airstrikes, similar to the Vietnamese during the American War. Dershowitz cites a quote from a Hamas leader praising the use of human shields, leading to a heated exchange over the credibility of the claim and the extent of civilian casualties caused by each side.

25:06

☮️ Discussion on Ceasefire, Hostage Release, and Hamas' Future

The discussion shifts towards the proposed ceasefire and the release of hostages. Dershowitz agrees with the American and British plan for a six-week ceasefire coupled with the release of hostages and disabling Hamas from returning to power. Barouti also agrees that Israeli prisoners should be released in exchange for Palestinian prisoners but argues that Palestinians have a right to struggle for freedom from occupation and oppression, following the path of leaders like Martin Luther King Jr. The debate centers on the conditions for peace and the future role of Hamas.

30:09

🤼 Heated Debate on Historical Narratives and Use of Human Shields

The debate intensifies as Barouti accuses Dershowitz of repeating Israeli propaganda and challenges him to provide evidence for his claims about Hamas using human shields. Dershowitz promises to provide a quote from a Hamas leader bragging about using human shields, while Barouti remains adamant that Hamas does not engage in such practices. The debate also touches on historical narratives, with Barouti accusing Dershowitz of misrepresenting the acceptance of the 1948 partition plan by Israel. The exchange becomes heated, with both sides questioning each other's credibility and understanding of history.

35:09

🔚 Conclusion of the Heated Debate

The debate concludes with Dershowitz challenging Barouti to stake his credibility on the claim that Hamas does not use human shields, while Barouti maintains his position that Hamas does not engage in such practices. The interviewer thanks both guests for their participation in the intense and passionate debate, which covered various aspects of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, including the use of human shields, civilian casualties, historical narratives, and the future of Hamas.

Mindmap

Keywords

💡Genocide

The deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, ethnic, religious, or national group. This term is used frequently in the video, with Dr. Cornell West accusing Israel of committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza. He refers to the situation in Gaza as a 'state of emergency' and a 'genocide' that needs urgent attention. Mustafa Barghouti also accuses Israel of committing genocide, citing the deaths of 12,000 Palestinian children.

💡Human Shields

The practice of using civilians (often women and children) as protective cover for military operations or personnel. Alan Dershowitz accuses Hamas of employing this tactic, claiming they brag about using 'women and children as human shields.' However, Mustafa Barghouti vehemently denies this accusation, calling it 'Israeli propaganda' and claiming that Hamas does not use human shields.

💡Ceasefire

A temporary suspension of active hostilities between opposing forces. The video discusses the call by US Vice President Kamala Harris for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza for at least six weeks. This proposed ceasefire is linked to the release of hostages and a potential move towards a longer-term cessation of violence.

💡Hostages

A person seized or held as security for the compliance of others with certain terms or conditions. The video mentions the release of hostages as a condition for the proposed ceasefire, with Alan Dershowitz stating that Hamas must name all the hostages they are holding for a deal to be reached.

💡Apartheid

A policy or system of segregation and discrimination on grounds of race or ethnicity. Mustafa Barghouti accuses Israel of practicing apartheid against Palestinians, stating that the Palestinian struggle is to be free from 'occupation, apartheid, and oppression.' Dr. Cornell West also references apartheid-like conditions in Gaza.

💡Terrorism

The use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims. The video features a debate over whether Hamas should be considered a terrorist organization or a resistance movement against Israeli occupation. Mustafa Barghouti draws parallels between Hamas and historical figures like George Washington and Nelson Mandela, who were also labeled as terrorists.

💡Occupation

The act of taking control of a territory or region by military force. The video discusses the long-standing Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories, with Mustafa Barghouti stating that the Palestinian struggle is for freedom from occupation. Dr. Cornell West also references the Israeli occupation as the root cause of the conflict.

💡Self-defense

The act of defending oneself, one's property, or the well-being of another from harm. Alan Dershowitz argues that Israel's actions are in self-defense, citing the nation's right to protect itself from attacks like the one on October 7th. He posits that Israel's actions in 1948 were also in self-defense against Arab armies.

💡Martyr

A person who suffers greatly or is killed for a belief, cause, or principle. Dr. Cornell West refers to Aaron Bushnell, who set himself on fire in protest, as a 'martyr' who paid the ultimate cost to bear witness to the suffering of Palestinians in Gaza. West draws parallels between Bushnell and historical figures like Cato, who committed suicide as a form of moral witness.

💡Ethnic cleansing

The mass expulsion or extermination of members of an unwanted ethnic or religious group in a society. Mustafa Barghouti accuses Israel of committing ethnic cleansing in addition to genocide and collective punishment against Palestinians in Gaza. He cites the destruction of homes, universities, and hospitals as evidence of this alleged ethnic cleansing.

Highlights

Cornell West compared Aaron Bushnell's self-immolation to Cato's suicide as an act of moral courage and willingness to bear witness against oppression.

West argued that many of his critics are indifferent to the suffering and genocide happening in Gaza.

West stated he would acknowledge the courage of anyone bearing witness against the killing of innocent people, regardless of their affiliation.

West described the actions in Gaza as a state of emergency requiring urgency, referring to them as massacres happening before our eyes.

West claimed he would be morally consistent in opposing any organized army that kills innocent people, especially children.

West argued that Hamas emerged as a counter-terrorist group responding to the terrorism of the Israeli state, which began in 1948.

Alan Dershowitz accused West of promoting violence by acknowledging Bushnell's actions and called his use of the term 'genocide' for Israel's actions as Holocaust denial.

Mustafa Barghouti stated that over 12,000 Palestinian children have been killed, which he considers an act of genocide.

Barghouti claimed that 4.5% of Gaza's population has been killed or injured, which he stated would be equivalent to 12 million people in the US.

Barghouti accused Israel of committing genocide, collective punishment, and ethnic cleansing simultaneously in Gaza.

Dershowitz challenged Barghouti's claim that Hamas does not use human shields, citing a quote from a Hamas leader praising the use of human shields.

Barghouti equated the Palestinian struggle for freedom to the American Revolution, the Civil Rights Movement, and the anti-apartheid movement in South Africa.

Barghouti stated that if Hamas followed the path of non-violent resistance like Martin Luther King Jr., there would be peace.

Dershowitz argued that if Hamas laid down its arms, there would be peace, while if Israel did so, it would lead to genocide.

The debate centered around whether Hamas uses human shields, with Barghouti denying it and Dershowitz claiming to have evidence from a Hamas leader.

Transcripts

00:00

well pressure is again intensifying on

00:02

Israel after US vice president kamla

00:04

Harris called for a ceasefire in Gaza

00:06

and rebuked the humanitarian catastrophe

00:09

there opinions on the war are sharply

00:11

divided in America Israel's most

00:13

important Ally a fact lay bare by the

00:15

death of us Amon Aaron bushnel last week

00:19

the 25-year-old set himself a light

00:21

outside the Israeli Embassy in

00:22

Washington DC shouting free Palestine

00:25

and declaring he would no longer be

00:27

complicit in genocide well presidential

00:30

candidate Dr Cornell West stood up

00:32

controversy by posting the following to

00:34

X let us ever forget the extraordinary

00:36

courage and commitment of brother Aaron

00:38

Bushnell who died for truth and Justice

00:41

I pray for his precious loved ones let

00:43

us rededicate ourselves to genuine

00:45

solidarity with Palestinians undergoing

00:47

genocidal attacks in real time well many

00:49

Jewish commentators said Dr West

00:51

comments encourage political violence by

00:54

those oppos to Israel's existence but

00:56

joining me now to discuss his

00:57

controversial post is the independent

00:59

president candidate Professor Cornell

01:01

West Cornell great to see you thank you

01:03

very much for coming back on uncensored

01:05

um always a blessing to being

01:07

conversation with you my brother and the

01:09

feeling is is very mutual let me just

01:11

just ask you many people were pretty

01:14

surprised by the tone of your uh of your

01:17

Tweet not least the fact that you would

01:19

categorize what Aaron bushnel did as

01:22

extraordinary courage and commitment uh

01:26

many people think it was the act of

01:28

somebody quite possibly

01:30

very seriously mentally ill taking his

01:33

life in dramatic circumstances and that

01:36

that was not necessarily consistent with

01:38

being courageous or

01:41

committed well one is that U you think

01:45

of ko the younger when he killed himself

01:49

as the Roman Empire began to emerge and

01:52

the Roman Republic was collapsing and

01:55

Ko's killing of himself has become one

01:58

of the grand examples of moral courage

02:02

and a willingness to Bear witness as to

02:04

something that he deeply opposed now I

02:07

think it's very interesting that so many

02:09

of the people who were critical of me

02:12

talking about the courage of my dear

02:14

brother Aaron that they don't understand

02:17

the depths and scope of the suffering

02:20

right now in Gaza and too many of them

02:22

actually are even indifferent to the

02:25

genocide they're indifferent to the

02:27

ethnic cleansing they're indifferent to

02:30

the apar like conditions and so I can

02:33

understand them saying well I am

02:35

promoting violence by acknowledging the

02:38

tremendous courage in to engage in a

02:41

moral witness in which you kill yourself

02:44

as a way of calling attention not to

02:46

yourself but to suffering of precious

02:49

Palestinians in Gaza that's what Aaron

02:52

was doing in the same way Kato was doing

02:54

the same thing when they saw Julius

02:56

Caesar moving into the highest position

03:00

and it was clear that the Republic was

03:02

coming to a close and the empire was

03:05

being established and there's a whole

03:07

host of examples of people who bear

03:09

Witness by killing themselves let me ask

03:12

you this suicide no that's not the point

03:15

it's the cause that they are bearing

03:17

witness to and that's where my

03:19

difference with so many of my deeply

03:21

conservative and and moderate Jewish

03:23

brothers and sisters comes in if they're

03:25

indifferent to the suffering in Gaza

03:28

then it's going to be difficult for me

03:29

even have a conversation because for me

03:31

it's a state of emergency for me we need

03:34

a sense of urgency this these massacres

03:37

are taking place before our very eyes we

03:41

ought to be on fire we ought to be

03:43

deeply concerned let me ask you this

03:45

would you have said the same thing if

03:48

this Airman had killed himself in this

03:51

manner outside the Palestinian Embassy

03:55

in Washington DC if there is one

03:58

whatever the the uh central location is

04:00

for Palestinians in Washington the day

04:03

after October the 7th and reversed it

04:06

and said I'm doing this in response to

04:08

the horror committed by Hamas on Jewish

04:11

people in Israel would you have felt the

04:13

same way about what

04:16

happened oh absolutely murder is murder

04:19

though brother that when you kill

04:21

innocent people when you kill civilians

04:23

those are crimes against humanity now I

04:26

have a larger indictment of Israeli apar

04:30

I have a larger indictment of the

04:31

Israeli occupation of Palestinians but

04:34

anytime any organized group kills

04:38

innocent people especially innocent

04:40

children I will be in opposition that's

04:43

true for US troops that's true for

04:45

British troops that's true for the IDF

04:48

that's true for Iranian troops that's

04:50

true for Chinese troops that's true for

04:52

Indian troops any

04:54

organized Army that kills innocent

04:58

people especially children

05:00

for me is murder I'm morally consistent

05:03

in that regard and that therefore if

05:05

somebody kills themselves in order to

05:08

call attention to the suffering of

05:10

precious innocent people especially

05:12

precious innocent children I am going to

05:16

acknowledge that courage and say it's

05:18

wrong it's wrong it's wrong and I don't

05:21

mind being morally consistent and

05:23

therefore having people thoroughly

05:25

misunderstand me because I do not look

05:27

at the world through a narrow set of

05:30

ideological lens I try to stay in

05:32

contact with the humanity of all

05:34

innocent people and all children no

05:36

matter what color Palestinian Israeli

05:39

Ethiopian Guatemalan I fundamentally

05:41

believe that a Palestinian baby has the

05:43

same value as an Israeli baby the

05:46

problem is you and I know that if

05:48

Palestinians were doing this to

05:51

Israelis

05:53

Biden Harris blinkin all of these folks

05:57

who are enabling this genocide enabling

06:00

these crimes against humanity they would

06:02

have a very different view because

06:03

they're not morally consistent they

06:06

don't believe that a Palestinian life

06:08

has the same value as an Israeli I

06:10

certainly do but I certainly think I

06:12

certainly do but I also believe that the

06:14

the purest definition of genocide is

06:16

hamas's view of uh Jewish people in

06:20

Israel they want to get rid of all of

06:21

them they've made it very clear publicly

06:23

since October the 7th that they want to

06:25

commit that kind of atrocity again and

06:27

again and again and just get rid of all

06:29

jewi people in Israel that actually is

06:31

the purest definition of genocide isn't

06:33

it well genocide has to do with intent

06:36

as well as execution would you accept

06:39

the

06:40

Hamas when Hamas was founded in

06:43

1988 as a response to vious Israeli

06:46

occupation they were wrong they were

06:49

calling for the forms of violent

06:52

resistance that too often did include

06:55

killing innocent folk because of course

06:57

innocent Palestinians had been killed

06:59

for 75 years by the IDF and others they

07:02

did change their Charter there's been

07:04

struggles within the Hamas itself and

07:08

the Palestinian people themselves

07:11

are how would you put it the Palestinian

07:13

people themselves are resisting with

07:15

tremendous dignity and Hamas has emerged

07:19

as a major institutional vehicle and

07:22

that institutional vehicles for me does

07:25

involve crimes against humanity when

07:28

they kill innocent Folk they've em let's

07:30

be clear let's be clear they've emerged

07:32

as a terrorist terrorist organization

07:34

committing acts of mass terrorism I mean

07:36

that's what they are know Hamas is a

07:39

counterterrorist group responding to the

07:41

terrorism of the IDF and responding to

07:45

the terrorism of the Israeli State a

07:47

counterterrorist group can inv can can

07:49

can commit war crimes brother but they

07:51

they didn't initiate it at all if

07:54

they're founded in

07:55

1988 and the terrorism began in 1948

07:59

with the state of Israel that's 40 whole

08:02

years let's keep in mind I think it's a

08:04

stretch to

08:06

call undermine the PLO undermine secular

08:11

nationalism promote fundamentalist Islam

08:14

as a way of dividing Palestinians that's

08:16

why Nathan yahu allowed for Gaza allowed

08:20

for Hamas to gain to gain access to the

08:23

money from Qatar and others keep the

08:25

Palestinians divided and therefore not

08:28

having to move to deal with the West

08:30

there are look there are many things

08:32

that we would find agreement on about

08:34

the way Palestinians have been treated

08:36

for a very long time it has been a

08:38

completely unacceptable occupation

08:41

should

08:42

not but hang on hang on let me I know

08:45

let me finish but the idea that you

08:47

categorize Hamas after October 7th as

08:49

counter terrorists is ridiculous they

08:51

are terrorists and they should be called

08:54

what they are anyway let me ask you do

08:55

do you think the IDF is terrorist when

08:57

they kill innocent Palestinians do you

08:59

believe I it depends yes or no my

09:01

brother yes or no well okay I I would

09:03

ask you this if you yes or no yes or no

09:07

hang on you're uncensored you're

09:08

uncensored my brother and I've been

09:10

asked this question before I have

09:11

actually tweeted in 2014 I tweeted that

09:14

what Israel was doing then was bordering

09:17

on terrorism I'm not afraid of using

09:18

that analogy bordering on terrorism the

09:21

children are being killed right yes of

09:22

course they were children killed on

09:24

October the 7th I have serious

09:26

misgivings about what's happening

09:27

currently in Gaza like most people but

09:30

what I would say to you if you were the

09:32

head of the Israeli government on

09:34

October the 7th out of Interest what

09:37

would your response have been to that

09:39

horrendous terror attack well I I'll

09:42

tell you the answer to that question but

09:43

I don't know why you just can't say the

09:45

IDF is terrorist killers and innocent

09:47

people bordering on it it's wrong no

09:50

what why you're uncensored you're a free

09:52

man tell the truth from your soul tell

09:55

let me tell you what I would what I

09:56

would do if I was in Israel I would any

09:59

occupation I would end The Siege I would

10:02

saying I'm committed to Palestinian

10:04

dignity I'm committed to Palestinian

10:06

equality and we Palestinians and

10:09

Israelis we Jews and and and and and

10:11

Palestinians we're going to learn how to

10:13

live together in the context of equality

10:16

and dignity we're going to have Jewish

10:18

safety we're going to have Jewish

10:20

security that's the very end and aim of

10:22

Israel we never see an annihilation of

10:24

Jews we'll never see another Massacre or

10:26

holy caust of Jews but we'll never see

10:28

an ation and and Massacre and and and

10:31

and and and and and vicious attacks on

10:33

Palestinians either that's what I would

10:35

do not just head of Israel that's what

10:38

I'll do in the White House brother

10:41

that's what I'll do in the white house

10:42

and I'll explain to American people why

10:44

it is that Biden and Harris and others

10:47

continue to enable this genocide and

10:49

then when they finally say ceasefire

10:51

they act like they ought we ought to

10:53

give them a moral Prize or something

10:55

after 30,000 precious people have

10:57

already been killed yeah listen there's

10:59

a lot that you say that I agree with

11:01

just to be clear okay no no I I hear you

11:04

I hear you okay I just want to read you

11:05

what Ben Shapiro said about your Tweet

11:07

though about Aaron Bushnell he said our

11:09

political environment is facilitating

11:11

dangerous Insanity it is easy enough for

11:13

people like Cornell West to celebrate

11:15

the pseudo heroism of disturbed people

11:17

lighting themselves on fire but both the

11:20

mentally Disturbed in our society pay

11:22

the price for such celebration I mean he

11:24

has a point doesn't he you wouldn't want

11:26

other people to go and set fire to

11:28

themselves

11:29

and kill themselves like he did would

11:32

you brother I have deep libertarian

11:34

sensibilities I believe that people make

11:37

choice and they have to take

11:38

responsibilities they make decisions

11:40

they have to deal with the consequences

11:42

I do not promote people killing

11:45

themselves not at all but people do a

11:48

number of different things I would want

11:50

to ask brother Shapiro he's talking

11:52

about there's heroes in the Israeli

11:54

Defense Forces many of whom are killing

11:57

innocent children do do I think that's

11:59

sick yes that is morally bankrupt it is

12:03

spiritually empty it is ethically

12:06

vacuous I come right back at Shapiro

12:09

Your Heroes happen to be engaging in

12:11

Terrorist activity against Palestinians

12:14

and he and you're gonna say Aaron's not

12:17

a hero Aaron is a particular person who

12:19

exercised a certain kind of witness and

12:22

ended up taking the form of killing

12:24

himself in order not to bring attention

12:26

to himself but to try to give some of

12:29

urgency for a genocide do you do you

12:34

believe that's what brother super want

12:36

to focus on do you believe wants hide

12:40

his indifference to the suffering of

12:41

Palestinians in the form of attacking

12:44

let me ask you how cowardly can you get

12:46

my brother do you believe that Aaron

12:48

bushnel is a

12:51

martyr well martyr and witness really

12:54

have the same uh root as you know in the

12:57

Greek uh and Martyr means someone who

13:00

pays an ultimate cost tied to a higher

13:04

cause I believe trying to bring

13:07

attention to genocide and bring genocide

13:09

to a close is a higher cause and I

13:13

believe that his actions was trying to

13:15

bring attention to that higher cause so

13:18

yes he is a martyr absolutely Dr West uh

13:21

always good to talk to you on uncensor

13:23

thank blessing stay strong my brother

13:27

would you be out to debate all this is

13:28

legal scholar and author of war against

13:30

the Jews Professor Alan dwizz and the

13:31

leader of the Palestinian national

13:33

initiative Mustafa barouti well welcome

13:35

to both of you um Alan dotz your

13:38

response there to Dr West in particular

13:40

categorization of Aaron bushnel as a

13:42

Marty for setting himself on fire and

13:45

and taking his own life in protest what

13:49

he said was the genocide of Palestinians

13:51

in

13:52

Gaza if anybody is going to be a mod

13:55

they should take their lives and protest

13:58

of hamama using precious children as

14:01

human shields uh using a child as a

14:04

human shield putting a child a hospital

14:07

a school a mosque over Hamas Fighters

14:11

and tunnels and other uh weapons that

14:15

are used to kill precious Jewish

14:17

children is the major reason why so many

14:20

civilians particularly so many children

14:22

and women have been killed by the way

14:24

there is a lower ratio of civilians to

14:27

combatants that have been killed in Gaza

14:30

than in any Modern Warfare according to

14:34

even the Hamas statistics and if you

14:36

compare them to the number of people

14:38

combatants who have been killed the

14:40

ratio is approximately one and a half to

14:43

one which is three or four to one the

14:47

problem with the problem with that

14:48

analogy is that when you actually get

14:50

into the statistics and let's accept

14:53

this is the Palestinian health authority

14:55

it's Hamas run uh but this the numbers

14:57

have not been challenged uh as being you

15:00

know wildly inaccurate by any other body

15:02

but more I'm accepting them for the

15:04

moment yeah so more more children have

15:07

been killed as a percentage of Civilian

15:09

deaths than any other type of conflict

15:12

of this nature in Modern Times And the

15:14

reason for that is that Gaza Gaza has

15:17

two million people of which a million

15:21

just over half are under 18 so it's

15:24

become de facto a Slaughter of children

15:27

that's the problem

15:29

well REM remember that Gaza that Hamas

15:32

counts anybody under 19 as a child Hamas

15:36

recruits children between the ages of 13

15:39

and 19 to be terrorists so buy you can't

15:43

you can't buy a beer Alan you can't buy

15:45

a beer in many American states if you're

15:48

under 21 so the definition of what is a

15:51

child I

15:53

mean but a 19-year-old is not a child a

15:56

19-year-old with a gun pointed at an

15:58

Israeli who was shot is not a child a

16:01

woman who was throwing a bomb at

16:03

Israelis is not a child remember too

16:06

that my dear friend Cornell also said

16:08

that the terrorism by Israel started in

16:11

1948 in 1948 Israel was prepared to

16:14

accept the two-state solution in a tiny

16:17

little State and they were attacked by

16:19

all the Arab armies and they fought in

16:21

self-defense but Cornell West revealed